How did it come to this?
Published on May 9, 2004 By valleyboyabroad In Blogging
The horrific photographs released over the last few days that have stunned the entire world mark a new depth to which the reputation of the US has sunk.

With promises of more and worse evidence of systematic abuse, torture and murder to come , it is no exaggeration to say that the war which the US was always struggling to win has now irredeemably been lost..

As if this wasn't bad enough, with all the focus on these dreadful pictures of jubilant US soldiers revelling in their sick humiliation of defenceless people, many people haven't noticed the increasing number of reports that the US army is also using slave labour in Iraq, in particular from India.

There are those that are trying to play down these monstrous events, with claims that 'the US is not the only one' citing other reports circulating that Britain too is involved in prisoner abuse. But while the allegations of abuse by British forces, if true, are also to be abhorred, there is as yet little evidence of the systematic abuse that seems to prevail among the US administered prisons.

Others will claim that the sort of humiliation and torture that the US routinely use is common in many Middle East countries, why all the fuss now?

These two arguments, almost exclusively from US commentators, once more serve to underline the rotting stench that has bceome embedded in the moral fibre of the United States.

To be fair, these people do not represent the US public, and as Bush's plummeting approval ratings demonstrate, the American people are now waking up and reacting with the appropriate disgust that the entire world feels.

But surely this is just confined to the war in Iraq?

It can't be happening elsewhere can it?

But it has and it does.

Evidence of systematic torture is emerging not just from Afghanistan, but from Morocco, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. The US has been deliberately sending its detainees to countries known for human rights abuses in order to get the information that they desire, by whatever method, more often than not from totally innocent people.

In short they have been sub-contracting the torture of detainees to private contractors, and this picture is also emerging internally in Iraq where private intelligence contractors have been used to 'interrogate' prisoners.

Back in Afghanistan:

"The United States is setting a terrible example in Afghanistan on detention practices,"

said Brad Adams, executive director of the Asia division of Human Rights Watch,

"Civilians are being held in a legal black hole – with no tribunals, no legal counsel, no family visits and no basic legal protections."

It has now become routine for people in countries occupied by US forces to expect the dreaded knocking at or kicking down of the door in the middle of the night.

People are taken away, held without charge for months on end and tortured. Some have died at the hands of their interrogators, Bagram in Afghanistan and Abu Grahib in Iraq.

70% of those held at the Abu Grahib were eventually released and the full horror is underlined; the US had been torturing innocent people, just as Saddam did.

Saddam has been replaced by Uncle Saddam.

Such comparisons don't bear close scrutiny of course, but this is the perception on the streets of Iraq, and elsewhere in the Arab world.

'The torture is not the work of a few American soldiers. It is the result of an official American culture that deliberately insults and humiliates Muslims' (AL-Quds al-Arabi, a Lodon based Arabic daily newspaper).

But how did it come to this?

How could ordinary American men and women treat Iraqi and Afghani prisoners with such cruelty, and worse, laugh at their humiliation at their hands?

The answer I would suggest lies in the Bush's administration low regard for the law, of respecting the law only when convenient.

Over the last few years Bush has stated his view time and again that the law must bend to what the President deems is necessary. And so International law must yield to National Security, the American Constitution to his whimsical curbing of American freedoms.

And nowhere is this more clearly shown than in the showpiece of US flagrant disregard for the law, Guatanamo bay.

Bush decided that he would ignore the Third Geneva convention, declaring all the prisoners there, innocent or guilty, unlawful combatants.

This deliberate violation of the Geneva convention has cost the US reputation dearly in the eyes of the worlds legal communities.

Where once people looked to the US as exemplar in its unswerving commitment to law, they now looked on in disbelief at its unilateral disregard for basic human rights.

This disregard went so far as to refuse to hear claims of torture, as Lord Steyn, one of Britains leading judges points out.

At the time claims of torture were deemed faintly ridiculous against a country as noble as the US. Now we cannot be sure, and indeed must assume the opposite..

A second dark day in American legal history was to follow the shame of Guatanamo.

The Bush administration refused to be subject to the new International Criminal Court., put in place to punish breaches of law such as genocide and war crimes. It is now apparent why the US refused to be bound by its edicts, for by the rules of the International Criminal Court the US is guilty of war crimes.

But those Americans that would reply by sticking two pathetically defiant fingers up to the world should think on.

In the most radical departure from the law that has ever been seen in the US, Bush is now able to declare anyone that he likes an enemy combatant; that person can then be detained in solitary confinement indefinitely, without charges, without a trial and without a right to counsel.

People in the US shoulc now fear the knock at the door by the Secret Police,

These are not the actions of a morally superior, mighty power, these are the actions of the very dictator, Saddam, that the US toppled in Iraq.

In Bush's 2003 State of the Union address he chillingly announced that 3,000 suspected terrorists had been arrested in many different countries. And still more had suffered a more lethal fate,

'Let's put it this way: They are no longer a problem for the United States'

Again, something that Saddam would be proud of. No matter if those slaughtered were innocent or guilty, whether murdered at a wedding party in Afghanistan or beaten to death as suspects.

Three quarters of a century ago, Justice Louis Brandeis observed,

'Crime is contagious. If the government becomes the lawbreaker, it breed contempt for the law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself'

Nowhere has this become so apparent as in Iraq.

In the next post I will examine further how the US has lost the moral high ground that it once occupied, and the devastating consequences that this has produced for US interests.

yechydda,

Comments (Page 1)
2 Pages1 2 
on May 09, 2004
as much as i wish i could dispute anything youve said (including the title which struck me as excessively melodramatic before i began reading), i can't. if im reading you correctly, you're not condemning or attacking, but rather sounding an alarm and predicting what seems likely to happen unless we're able to reverse our direction.

i know of two people (friends of friends) who are in the final stages of being deported. one is a woman who was born of american parents on a us military base in germany where her father was stationed. her citizenship has been revoked (something i never knew was possible). the basis for revocation is a drug possesion conviction dating back before 2001.

i saw the tail of the 2nd plane in realtime a millisecond before it smashed into the wtc. i wasnt sure what id seen til after the explosion but some part of me knew immediately because by the time i saw the explosion i already knew what was going to happen. similarly, i wasnt sure what it was i was seeing in the days immediately after 9/11, but i felt that same sort of sadness and certainty that something was going wrong. it was the creation of the department of homeland security that tipped me off. the term 'homeland' referring to the united states of america as a country is now used frequently, to me it still sounds very alien and sinister as it did when i heard it first.

i keep hoping im wrong. but im afraid im not

and neither are you.
on May 09, 2004
Hi Johnny,

It is an interesting point of view blaming the actions of the US soldiers on the lawlessness of the government. Have you ever read 'the Art of War'? A similar idea comes up in the factors that influence the outcome of a war. There is a concept called roughly 'moral law', it is somewhat similar to the modern idea of morale, but it is seen as an attribute of the leaders, not the troops themselves.

I'm not sure if this is a good enough answer for me. It is really the same old question isn't it. How could German soldiers exterminate millions, how could Rwandan militias slaughter hundreds of thousands of their neighbours, how could Japanese soldiers experiment on living Chinese prisoners with biological weapons, and so on and so forth. I have always found the Japanese bio-experimentation example to be the most disturbing because none of the people involved were punished. To this day many of the former members of these units do not admit any wrongdoing, even though they freely admit killing scores of 'logs' - their name for their victims. Why such inhumanity in war?
on May 09, 2004
It happened during Vietnam as well. A culture of torture and disregard for basic human rights grew in the military like a cancer.

I recently heard a news caster refer to "the invisible enemy," a phrase that invoked thoughts of "that dirty little war" in Southeast Asia. When you fight guerilla forces, the line between the bad guys and the civilians that you are there to serve and protect blurs. Everyone not in your uniform becomes suspect. There ARE NO civilians, you have to assume that everyone is against you. It all becomes "us" versus them.

When you do that, now the war is against the Iraqi people. That leads to stereotypes, to demonization and dehumanization. I don't know what the current war's version of "gooks" is, but I bet there is one. Since you a dealing with "subhumans" now (in the military group think, that is) anything that you do isn't really against "people."

So ordinary soldiers act in a manner that they never would consider during normal circumstances. Get the intelligence from the prisoner however you must. Torture? Humiliation? Its now like you were doing that to "people."

And the worst part is that when such a culture takes hold, it is very hard to counteract.
on May 09, 2004
Moral Hubris (tm)
on May 10, 2004
Kingbee,

i know of two people (friends of friends) who are in the final stages of being deported. one is a woman who was born of american parents on a us military base in germany where her father was stationed. her citizenship has been revoked (something i never knew was possible). the basis for revocation is a drug possesion conviction dating back before 2001.


I didn't know that citizenship was revokable either.

That sounds horrific, it's not an awfully far removal from the British sending criminals to Australia.





i saw the tail of the 2nd plane in realtime a millisecond before it smashed into the wtc. i wasnt sure what id seen til after the explosion but some part of me knew immediately because by the time i saw the explosion i already knew what was going to happen.


It's odd, I had the day off work when it came over the radio. I switched the television on and saw the carnage that the first plane had caused. I was shocked, but suddenly, just like yourself, I saw the second plane in 'real time' and just like you I knew that something extraordinary had happened. I suppose many people reacted just the way that you and I did.

it was the creation of the department of homeland security that tipped me off. the term 'homeland' referring to the united states of america as a country is now used frequently, to me it still sounds very alien and sinister as it did when i heard it first. i keep hoping im wrong. but im afraid im notand neither are you.


It does sound sinister.

And it isn't just your country, Britain too is able now to detain people at whim, the difference being that they must eventually be charged.

yechydda,

on May 10, 2004
Nuke,

Good to see you here!

It is an interesting point of view blaming the actions of the US soldiers on the lawlessness of the government. Have you ever read 'the Art of War'? A similar idea comes up in the factors that influence the outcome of a war. There is a concept called roughly 'moral law', it is somewhat similar to the modern idea of morale, but it is seen as an attribute of the leaders, not the troops themselves.I'm not sure if this is a good enough answer for me. It is really the same old question isn't it. How could German soldiers exterminate millions,


I think that there is an important issue here and that is the acknowledgment of basic human rights. Once you regard people as not subject to the law, then you begin to see them as less than human.

There was an extremely disturbing book published a while back that pointed out that most Germans knew exactly what was going on in the concentration camps, rather than the recieved wisdom that they were largely ignorant.

The demonisation of Jews, Gays and Gypsies before the war was part of the softening up process, part of a larger plan to exterminate these 'subhuman' creatures. You only have to look at cartoons prevalent in the German press at the time to realise this.

how could Rwandan militias slaughter hundreds of thousands of their neighbours, how could Japanese soldiers experiment on living Chinese prisoners with biological weapons, and so on and so forth. I have always found the Japanese bio-experimentation example to be the most disturbing because none of the people involved were punished. To this day many of the former members of these units do not admit any wrongdoing, even though they freely admit killing scores of 'logs' - their name for their victims. Why such inhumanity in war?


Furthermore, there is revisionism in Japanese schools, where none of this shameful episode is recorded in history books. The Japanese have never really apologised for the atrocities that they commited either.

Again in Rwanda there was a culture of subhumanisation.

By incarcerating people beyond the law, Guatanamo, Bagram, Al Grahib you are effectively placing them beneath the law and therefore subject to such abject cruelty that we have witnessed, persona non grata.

And this culture does go right to the top.

Rumsfeld actually came out and said that he hadn't fully read the report, because he had been too busy. While people were still languishing in Baghdad prisons last Saturday, he attended a Gala ball for the Press Association.

The truth is that the Red Cross and other groups gave notice about systematic abuse shortly after the fall of Baghdad and since. The Pentagon just didn't care enough and this is exemplified by Rumsfelds lack of interest to take action on this matter.

He should go, there is no other way that can be seen as moral.

Throwing a few guilty men at tribunals will not convince anyone, especially not the Iraqis.

yechydda,
on May 10, 2004
Larry,

It happened during Vietnam as well. A culture of torture and disregard for basic human rights grew in the military like a cancer.I recently heard a news caster refer to "the invisible enemy," a phrase that invoked thoughts of "that dirty little war" in Southeast Asia. When you fight guerilla forces, the line between the bad guys and the civilians that you are there to serve and protect blurs. Everyone not in your uniform becomes suspect. There ARE NO civilians, you have to assume that everyone is against you. It all becomes "us" versus them.When you do that, now the war is against the Iraqi people. That leads to stereotypes, to demonization and dehumanization. I don't know what the current war's version of "gooks" is, but I bet there is one. Since you a dealing with "subhumans" now (in the military group think, that is) anything that you do isn't really against "people." So ordinary soldiers act in a manner that they never would consider during normal circumstances. Get the intelligence from the prisoner however you must. Torture? Humiliation? Its now like you were doing that to "people."And the worst part is that when such a culture takes hold, it is very hard to counteract.


I agree wholeheartedly with this.

In my reply to Nuke I mentioned much the same words, the subhuminisation of people is all too apparent.

There's another issue here, one I raised shortly after the fall of Baghdad.

The soldiers out there on the ground were not trained to be policemen they were soldiers.

Soldiers have to hate their enemy in order to kill them.

They don't know whether a child approaching them with a bag of fruit is carrying a bomb or some dates.

Police, are the bridge between the law and the people.

There are effectively no policemen in Iraq.

This is a dark day not just for the US but the entire edifice of Western Democracy, and as you suggest, the army is riddled with this corruption.

yechydda,







on May 10, 2004
Larry,

It happened during Vietnam as well. A culture of torture and disregard for basic human rights grew in the military like a cancer.I recently heard a news caster refer to "the invisible enemy," a phrase that invoked thoughts of "that dirty little war" in Southeast Asia. When you fight guerilla forces, the line between the bad guys and the civilians that you are there to serve and protect blurs. Everyone not in your uniform becomes suspect. There ARE NO civilians, you have to assume that everyone is against you. It all becomes "us" versus them.When you do that, now the war is against the Iraqi people. That leads to stereotypes, to demonization and dehumanization. I don't know what the current war's version of "gooks" is, but I bet there is one. Since you a dealing with "subhumans" now (in the military group think, that is) anything that you do isn't really against "people." So ordinary soldiers act in a manner that they never would consider during normal circumstances. Get the intelligence from the prisoner however you must. Torture? Humiliation? Its now like you were doing that to "people."And the worst part is that when such a culture takes hold, it is very hard to counteract.


I agree wholeheartedly with this.

In my reply to Nuke I mentioned much the same words, the subhuminisation of people is all too apparent.

There's another issue here, one I raised shortly after the fall of Baghdad.

The soldiers out there on the ground were not trained to be policemen they were soldiers.

Soldiers have to hate their enemy in order to kill them.

They don't know whether a child approaching them with a bag of fruit is carrying a bomb or some dates.

Police, are the bridge between the law and the people.

There are effectively no policemen in Iraq.

This is a dark day not just for the US but the entire edifice of Western Democracy, and as you suggest, the army is riddled with this corruption.

yechydda,







on May 10, 2004

Britain too is able now to detain people at whim,


That's nothing new.  They've been using that law for years to detain "suspected" members of the IRA.  They can hold the suspect for 7 days without charges.


the army is riddled with this corruption


We don't know that.  We know what happened, but we still do not know the scale.  OG Sans wrote an excellent article on this, and he says it much better than I do.  What happened is not acceptable, but it is evitably a result of war.  Clearly the unit in charge of that prision was unethical and corrupted.  You have a mixture of young kids with power and failed leadership.  Add in the fact that they were not trained as MPs and you've created a fatal cocktail.  There are hints that there was torture in Afghanistan as well...we'll have to see if these are confirmed before I'm willing to paint the entire army with the same brushstroke as the soldiers at Abu Grahib.


As for the arguement that America has lost it's moral high ground.  Who thought we had one to begin with?   Look on JoeUser before this story broke and there were plenty of articles comparing the US to Satan.  It's all a matter of perspective.  For those who thought the US had a moral high ground, this may cause them to rethink, but ultimately I believe it will be viewed as a sad and tragic incident, not one that tarnishes the pedestal upon which America stands in many minds.  For if this can knock America down, why didn't Vietnam?

on May 10, 2004

Others will claim that the sort of humiliation and torture that the US routinely use is common in many Middle East countries, why all the fuss now?

These two arguments, almost exclusively from US commentators, once more serve to underline the rotting stench that has bceome embedded in the moral fibre of the United States.


Also, just a point of reference.  You are not in the US, correct?  Because my experience listening to American commentators is that this line has not been used AT ALL!  Everyone (media, bush administration, congress, people walking down the street) is disgusted by what happened.  I question your sources for this accusation.

on May 11, 2004
Shades,

That's nothing new. They've been using that law for years to detain "suspected" members of the IRA. They can hold the suspect for 7 days without charges.


I should have been more accurate, the chanegs made to the prevention of terrorism act or more precisely the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 allows foreigners who are suspected international terrorists to be detained indefinitely without charge or trial in the event their lives would be in danger if they were deported.

The Home Secretary wants this extended to British citizens.

There are hints that there was torture in Afghanistan as well...we'll have to see if these are confirmed before I'm willing to paint the entire army with the same brushstroke as the soldiers at Abu Grahib.


You forgot Guatanamo.

There are few people that do not believe that theses practices are not systematic, and I am more than happy to await the evidence that will be forthcoming involving torture, humiliation, rape and murder over the next few weeks to have my point proven without reasonable doubt.

Don't forget that these allegations were made before any photographs were released from Abu Ghraib.

As for the arguement that America has lost it's moral high ground. Who thought we had one to begin with?


As the justifications for the invasion of Iraq have floundered one by one, the one justificaton that stands is that the US has liberated the Iraqi people from an oppressive murderous tyrant.

How can you say that this is not a moral act?

What is your justification of disregarding international law and illegally invading another sovereign state?

not one that tarnishes the pedestal upon which America stands in many minds


And how do you justify this statement?

Are you saying that the US stands on an immoral pedesal?

On the one hand you are saying that there is no moral high ground and on the next you are saying that 'many minds' percieve that the US is on some sort of pedestal.

If not morality a pedestal based on what?

For if this can knock America down, why didn't Vietnam?


Are you claiming that dedeat in Vietnam had no repercussions on US foreign policy?

Or domestic policy?

This has to be one of the most daft statements I have heard.

yechydda,



on May 11, 2004
Shades,

You are not in the US, correct?


Correct, I am currently in Thailand travelling.

Everyone (media, bush administration, congress, people walking down the street) is disgusted by what happened. I question your sources for this accus


It seems to me that you have a problem accepting that there could be apologists for the actions of US troops involved in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guatanamo.

As I am travelling, it is impossible for me to provide accurate sources several days after the article is written.

My source, and indeed the only Western source that I have readily available in Thailand is the International Herald Tribune, which draws most of its commentators apparently from the Washington Post and the New Yoirk times.

I am not in the habit of inventing fantasies and object to your implication, but here are two quotations.

Rush Limbaugh invited listeners to to identify with the frustration the soldiers must have felt being shot at by ungrateful Iraqi people, so naturaly they felt the need to 'blow some steam off' by 'having a good time'.

Nancy Gibbs writing in Time magazine:

'Others noted that there was less outcry when Saddam was doing the torturing or argued that "they would do the same to us" if they had a chance.

There have been others.

By sticking your head in the sand and quibbling with demands for citing sources, you are actually playing into the hands of those that would wish to dismiss this as an aberration rather than a systematic history of prisoner abuse.

Prisoners have been tortured, abused, raped and murdered at the hands of US troops.

You can deny all you will, but these are the facts, and there are people in the US that see that there is little wrong with this justifying it as a consequence of war.

Thanfully these people are few and far between.

yechydda,
on May 11, 2004

This has to be one of the most daft statements I have heard.


I'd prefer if you would not insult me. And I notice you didn't respond to my critic of your sources.  I find it funny that you have made a number of assumptions about where I stand, and they are all wrong!


Are you claiming that dedeat in Vietnam had no repercussions on US foreign policy?


No, I said that it didn't "knock America down."  I think the fact that the US was and still a superpower, pretty much backs up my statement.  Vietnam did not cause America to fold, I don't think this will either.  There is a clear difference between what I said and repercussions on US foreign policy--please do not assume too much.


Are you saying that the US stands on an immoral pedesal?


No,  I don't think the pedestal is based on morality at all.  I am saying that "in many minds" the US is far better than any previous superpower or any current alternative, and therefore the horrific acts of torture won't cause the great decline. 


What is your justification of disregarding international law and illegally invading another sovereign state?


Personally, I didn't support the war, nor did I buy the justification that it was a liberation move.  *That* would be why I said the US didn't have a moral high ground.


and I am more than happy to await the evidence that will be forthcoming involving torture, humiliation, rape and murder over the next few weeks to have my point proven without reasonable doubt.


I think it's pretty sick to gloat over torture...but that's just my opinion. 

on May 11, 2004

Listen Valleyboyabroad--I am not making excuses for what happened.  I think it is sick and the perpetrators need to be dealt with--all the way up to Rumsfled if that's necessary.  I also find it funny that you can tell me what is going on in my country by reading what Rush said--who doesn't know that he's a right wing crackpot?  Give me a break. 

In my country, we have "innocent until proven guilty."  Those soldiers have been proven guilty...the military at large has not.

Countries have been involved in human rights abuses for years and it hasn't  marred their reputation in the international arena--no one is shunning the UK for its past treatment of Nationalist and Republicans in Northern Ireland...I'm not saying that makes the abuses OK, I'm saying that it's not going to have the effect that you are predicting.  I'm saying that unfortunately, the US is beyond reprimand--the only country that can hold the US accountable for what its soldiers did, is the US.  And as far as I've seen (again, I live here) Rumsfled is taking full responsibility (surprisingly).

But, I'm sure that you and your country are morally superior to every American and America...well, that's what you'd like to believe anyway.

on May 12, 2004
Shade,

I'd prefer if you would not insult me. And I notice you didn't respond to my critic of your sources. I find it funny that you have made a number of assumptions about where I stand, and they are all wrong!


Yes I did.

Go back and read the response.

No, I said that it didn't "knock America down. I think the fact that the US was and still a superpower, pretty much backs up my statement. "


It was a defeat pure and simple, just as what is happening in Iraq today is a defeat.

yechydda,

Germany and Japan were defeated in WWII and went on to become economic powerhouses, in no small part because of their defeat.




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